Friday, October 12, 2012

When DEBATES ATTACK!!


I’ve had bullshit session with less interruptions.
I’ve fought with my wife with less interruptions.
And if in some bar discussion your opponent did what Biden did, what, I wonder would have been the result?
I have no idea what this debate will do because certainly there are 2 components
  1. Who won, and why?
  2. Did this affect any voting?
But the mocking, and clearly put on smile, and contemptuous interruptions were disgusting and to put it mildly, off putting. Biden’s behavior and demeanor detracted from the information exchange, and had me waiting for Ryan to smack Biden, and praying it would happen.
On this basis, Biden lost himself the debate.
Never the less Ryan missed a few absolute knockout punches.
Benghazi was a no brainer, and Ryan did not press the VP’s lie back into his face. The people on the ground in Libya asked for help, we have the email, and the public testimony. Ryan should have simply looked into the camera and told the public they have just heard an untruth, then tell them why.
But when Biden interrupted to tell Ryan that the stimulus was not only a success, but also that contrary to Ryan’s claim, the govt had found no crimes in the use of stimulus moneys, Ryan could have asked him if that was true, then why ONLY TODAY, did the IRS find that the ENTIRE Solyndra fiasco was in fact an IRS dodge to establish a huge tax write off. Further that if the govt has a role in giving moneys to private industry it should be in fostering pure research, not paying for factories of political supporters.
Ryan also might have asked Biden where this kind of behavior was when the administration was negotiating with the Russians over missile defense? Instead, he could have remonstrated, we have the president over an unknown hot mike in a truly candid moment - namby-pambying the Russian PM, begging him for time until he has more room to give up more after the election.
On the defense, Biden’s biggest score, that Ryan wrote to him for stimulus funds, was easily deflected by asking why the funds were not pushed down to local levels, where businessmen, and local efforts are known. Why was the system designed to have all moneys be requested from the VP? Perhaps THIS is why Solyndra and so many other failures and clear waste occurred.
I believe this is evidence of being over prepared. The debate is an SAT, not a chem final.
Never the less, Biden lost the debate by showing how much a liar needs to bluster his way across the facts.
But IMHO, as I posted yesterday, Ryan should have come back as ‘I tried to be polite but I am a son of a bitch’. The nation is in trouble and we need sons of bitches, not blustering smirkers.
The New Republic, an old school liberal -turned more progressive to survive weekly, like the Weekly Std, declared Biden the clear winner, and never mentions his behavior, so I think we are going to see the president attempt this behavior.
Romney needs to be the firm unflappable businessman who indicates clearly he can be a son of of bitch, if his opponent is an interrupting, smirking actor whose faux efforts are an act designed to prevent truth from reaching the public.

5 comments:

Nicoenarg said...

I think Romney will be able to fight for his time unlike Ryan. Watch this clip with Romney and Perry debating

I do think Ryan was intimidated by Biden. I mean, can't really blame him...I would be too if smiling Frankenstein was sitting across from me.

I expected better from Ryan and I agree that he did waste a lot of very good opportunities to basically wipe the grin off the old creep's face.

Ryan let Biden get away with lies (the moderator is partly to blame because she interrupted Ryan countless times in the middle of his rebuttals) which did not score Ryan points.

Pastorius said...

Great analysis, Epa. I thought Ryan did well. But like you I was not overly impressed.

I don't think it was a matter of being over-prepared, unless you mean by that he had speeches rather than talking points. Because there were one of two times where it seemed Ryan was trying to make points that would take a longer time to work through, and then he got interrupted and did not get back to his point, or was not alllowed to get back to it.

I've listened to the man's speeches. They are marvels of reason and analysis.

But, yeah, he's not a great debater, yet.

He's decent though.

Epaminondas said...

The essence of winning a debate like this is to CREATE a moment that captures the exposure and defeat of the other party while appearing to be earnest and sincere.

Like any endeavor this takes practice to identify THAT opportunity.

Biden exposed himself on Libya, taxes, and by his demeanor and Ryan missed all three opportunities.
This is especially egregious since this is most effective when your opponent gives you the opening.

You cannot do it by repeating talking points.

Ryan had one opportunity in the only debate and he just wasn't ready for Biden's throat. No tragedy since Biden was a complete jackass, despite what anyone on the left side thinks.

But it's like watching an open receiver watch a pass which would give you a 10 point lead go through his fingers with 9 minutes to go.

You still can win, but everyone has to play to their potential.

Pastorius said...

By "talking points", I mean, like points in an outline.

I am not an experienced debater.

However, I have done enough public speaking, and this is how I do it.

I do not write a speech, memorize a speech or any of that.

I write an outline and I speak extemporaneously from that outline.

This allows me maneverability.

If I am in a debate style format (never a formal debate) I am able to respond and STILL STICK ON POINT.

Ryan could not simply improvise.

The stakes are too high.

He needs to stick with the agreed upon Rommey points.

Epaminondas said...

If you cannot freewheel based on an outline (you are right about that) then you are the wrong guy to be picked. It takes a lot more than scholarly budget plans and expertise on econometrics. I'm not saying that this is who Ryan is, I am just saying it takes a LOT of varied APTITUDES to be a good nominee. Being able to debate is being able to do a press conference is being able to talk in town halls is being able to respond to the daily prez level grind in real time.
That's what it takes, and us whining that Lincoln couldn't hold more that a state senator role to day doesn't help or matter. All HE had to do was come up with a joke 3 days after the papers called him the 'original gorilla'. Today, you have to slice off Andrea Mitchell's dress in real time while looking like a pastor who found a hooker, and STILL BE RIGHT.